Monday, October 23, 2006

A Breakthrough - Even a Meme if You Like

Ok, people, hold your horses! Before starting this post, I wanna say HAPPY ANNIVERSARY to two of my dearest friends: Dante and Tiggs! You two were made for each other - like duh! ;) And Dante, keep whacking that bratty butt! She deserves it! Many happy returns you two!! :) You are always there when I need you... thank you! :)
So people, go take a stroll to their pages and wish them a Happy Anniversary! ;)

About the rest of my post...
Last night Jack and I had a long talk. And remember what I said about spanking being all around us? I was right once again, when, again, by luck, Jack switched to AXN. They had a movie on. Two naked chicks were rubbing themselves against this young guy, and an older guy was walking around and talking.

"He will spank them," Jack said.
"No, he won't. They are just gonna have sex. Look!"
"He *will* spank them."
"How do you know? Have you seen the movie or something?" I was playing with my computer and watching TV in the same time.
"No, but it's obvious."
Since when my spanko-to-be and still a bit vanilla husband can tell the signs and I can't?

The old guy in the movie went something like: "You need to play by my rules. They like and need to be punished. They are naughty."
Yes, that caught my attention.
The girls stood up, kneeled. The old guy took off his belt and under the transfixed look of the young guy, he flicked the belt hard across their asses. They moaned, smiled: "We are naughty. Spank us more." So the old guy gave the belt to the young one who seemed to be quite enjoying himself. He spanked the shit out of them. "Harder," said the old guy. It was fun. It was like watching a larva developing into a butterfly. hehe Anyway, I will spear you of the rest, because it turned my stomach upside down. I viewed the scene as playful and fun until it came to cutting throats.

Now let's get back to my discussion with Jack yesterday. My game was easy: we each come up with ten reasons why we are obsessed with what we are. In my case, spanking. Ten reasons or ten questions from the other side.

His first question was if there is any difference for me between hand, hairbrush, or belt. Which one and why? I paused. "The belt," I said. "Why? Does it hurt more?" "No, that's the thing. It's not that it hurts more. Sometimes it even hurts less, but it's psychological." "Were you spanked as a child with the belt?" "No." "Could it be that you were spanked and you don't remember because you were too small?" I thought about it. There was always a possibility, but "no". I would remember. "It's probably because I knew other kids were getting the belt and because I was threatened with it when I was small. It's something related to... anticipation maybe. The prohibited something. I don't know."

Second question was if the amount of spanking and the pain makes a difference for me. "When I spank you more, you become more submissive. So is it related to pain?" I thought about it again. Yes, it was somehow related to pain, but I thought it had more to do with the headspace. It's about 'time' also. "If you were to spank me hard a few times, so I knew that you were always serious about spankings, then I would be in my submissive headspace before the spanking started. Then the pain would be less relevant, simply because the headspace brought me into submission, and the pain, even if not too strong, reinforces that."

"But you know that I can take full control whenever I want and make you submissive," he said.
"Yes," I said, "but I don't always take you seriously, and that's the issue. For me you are still a vanilla, and you don't always mean it when you say you would spank me. So I play with you. I can't *give* you control. You have to take it from me."

The discussion reached the control issue and the spanking. He said that if he were in a real life situation and he would be a teacher spanking his student, that would certainly get him hard. So, he is a spanko, but he sees spanking his wife as 'fake'. "It's not real for me. I know I have control. I know that you wouldn't do something stupid like cheat on me or fuck around, you know..."

"You have control because I allow you to have control," I said. "Funny enough, I don't think you have any control over me. I do what I want when I want, and it's not *you* making me do stuff. I do it because I want to. So, sorry to inform you, but you only imagine that you have control. If you want control, just take it."

"I can tie you down to the bed. You *know* I can take it when I want."

"Yes, I know that. Thank Goodness for that. But this is why I fight you when you want to spank me. I give you the chance to prove that you can take control."

He said then something about being bothered to spank me when I fight him. "When I say it's time to take your spanking, I don't wanna have to fight you for that. I want you to take it."

(Yesterday I got another spanking. It was a big one. Only hand again, but big one. He started by spanking my covered bum, then on my panties, then on the bare. I kicked like mad because there was no foreplay in those strokes. So I heard him getting all mad. He went for the "I'll give you five" policy. "Hands in front of you. I don't want them coming back. Feet on the floor. I don't want them moving at all." My hands stayed where they were, but my leg kept jumping off the floor, and he had to repeat the strokes countless times. I don't have self control it seems. It's just that the leg was jerking up and I had no control over it... Finally I trapped my own leg down with the other leg, desperately trying to stop it from moving. It worked. hehe Thinking my spanking was finished, I tried to stand up. Turns out he wasn't finished. "You said last five ones!" - I mumbled. "No, I said you were gonna get five. I didn't say they were the last ones." Blah blah blah yada yada yada... the spanking went on and on.)

So given this experience, I asked him if he was reading spanking stuff without me knowing it, or watching stuff, or how come he was coming with so many new things each time? Turns out he's just a natural. lol Good to know that, eh?

"Any difference for you if you get spanked while wearing long boots or jeans?"
"Mmmm... yeah. It's what you said before, about being fake or real. It's in the context. I prefer real stuff to role-playing. So, whatever outfit you find me at the time will do."

"Bondage. When is it too much for you? When does it make you feel unconfortable? Hands being cuffed, legs tied up, when I cover your mouth with my hand..."
"Bondage is not my kink exactly when it passes these limits."
"Ok. What about those gagging balls instead of my hand?"
"Not my thing."

It also turns out he knew I was into spanking long before I had told him. It seems that once I said something about my cousin spanking me with the belt. That was all. He was shocked and asked me if I liked it. I didn't answer, but changed the subject. He knew it on the spot, he said. That was three weeks after we had started dating. He said that all the pats to my bottom after that were related to that. He said he was nervous first because he didn't know how to handle it. We had the 'control' attribute in common. "But it turned out right I think. I am not nervous anymore. I think I do a pretty good job, eh?" hehe It also turns out that he knew I was the submissive kind in bed. He figured it out on the phone. Hmmm... what a smart guy I have. lol

"Guess what," I said. "If you weren't the dominant kind I would't be with you right now."
Same works for him. He left his ex saying that he had experienced something completely new and different with me, psychologically and sexually.

Oh, the discussion went on and on. He asked if I think that is visited by people who are into spanking only or spanking and sex? I said that, given my exprience, I would say that the spanko world is devided into two. I prefer punishment spankings and serious spankings, and sex might come or not with them. It can be an option, but for some of us, the spanking is already using so much of our endorphins that we might not consider sex anymore. Spanking is enough, generally speaking. He understood that it is mostly a state of mind for me.

Anyway, this morning I was spanked again. He did it trying to drag a confession out of me. He knew I wanted to share but I was too ashamed to tell him. So he spanked me until, with my face red and hidden under the pillow, I admitted what I did. It was hard. I didn't want him to know. I didn't want him to think bad of me... But after last night, things have changed around here. I know a few more secrets about him. Things he didn't want to share with me, thinking at his turn that I might think them sick. I didn't. I find them normal and I am happy he opened himself. So, to finish the confessions list, I shared one more thing with him. Something that I was never comfy with. When I showed him a vid on Punishedbrats a few days ago - a very funny one - he asked me: "What, is that her Dad?" "It doesn't matter who he is," I said, "it's all about the spanking." I lied. Last night I rectified: "It does matter sometimes who he is, because one of the only things that doesn't look fake in a vid is when it's a Father/daughter stuff." And since for me spanking is a different issue from sex, I have no problem with this fantasy. I don't feel guilty anymore. His questions really helped me understand some stuff yesterday. Yes, for me, spanking and sex do not go hand in hand. When spanked by him they do, but I don't like clips where the girl is naked and sex follows after a spanking.

I dunno what Tiggs's type is, so I cannot direct you, as an example, to her stories, but I can tottaly give examples of Haron's and Mija's stories. That's the kind of spanking that I love.


Tiggr said...


First off, let me say thank you, from the bottom of my heart, and from my bottom, he, he, he... for the ever so drippy, syrupy sweet words and sentiment for me and Dante today...

You've become a very dear friend in the short time I've been blessed to know you and we seem to get closer every day. This is indeed a breakthrough 24 hours for you and I am thrilled for you and also for Jack... doors are opening and you are walking through them together.

I Think I only have one fiction story on my site and even that was written with a real-life premise but I, too, love Haron and Mija's stories... they are gifted writers to be sure.

The Daddy thing? Yeah, babe, you're not alone there... we've done that, plenty. We used to role-play far more than we do these days but especially earlier on, we did it a lot. We worked me through a lot of really tough issues that way, too, and in many respects it was very successful for us while we were doing it.

These days I don't see Dante that way and don't even want to, but that in itself is a huge breakthrough for me... and NOT because there is anything dirty or wrong or bad about it. Just because for me, it was time to move beyond that, and we've taken that step together.

We talked a bit about the DD and D/s stuf last night, too, after my spanking, and some things will be changing again for us, though most likely not drastically and the mindset for me will remain the same.

But the point is that it is all evolution and as long as you are continuing to grow and expand and move forward... learning more about ourselves and each other and using the spanking or the DD or the D/s as a catalyst for greater growth on a much larger scale within our relationship.

I am so happy for you and so incredibly glad to have found you!

Love and huge hugs,

Paul said...

Great post Kay, you make a lot of sense.
Something I discovered very early on, my Mel was my sub, she could on occasion be the brat from hell, but mostly she was my angel. In all my reading and research I've never found a sub exactly like Mel or indeed a Dom like me.
Each of us is unique, Mija and Heron may be more like you than say Tiggr and Lessa, however you and Jack must work out how to fill each others needs. You are unlikely to do that by trying to copy others. Talking is good, you'll get there.
Warm hugs and soft pillows, (?)

Dante d'Amore said...

Wowsa Kayley! Two fantastic posts in a row. (And thanks for the anniversary wishes.)

Had I read this post without knowing it was yours, I would have guesses it was written by Tigger. I’m not kidding. You two are identical in so many ways on the idea of what spanking is about. This is also the first really good look at Jack that I’ve had and I must say I really like what I saw. He sounds like a great guy with a superb sense of humor. (Of course, he has to have a great sense of humor if he married you, lol.)

There is one thing though that I must take issue with. Jack was right in one sense that he can take control at any time by tying you up to the bed. Almost any man could do the same. In fact, by that standard, any man could take control of you any time Jack isn’t around. That is physical control. All it takes is a little muscle or a bit of rope. Anyone can do it.

But not just anyone can take mental and emotional control. And you surely would never offer it to just anyone. If Jack had such control he would have no need to tie you to the bed. All he would have to say is “do not move until I tell you to.”

You said he has to take control from you but that is not the way it appears. Control is yours and yours alone. He can not wrestle it from you. It is yours to keep or yours to give. Once you have given it to him it becomes his. That does not mean he will automatically use it or use it wisely (or well). That is a never-ending, ongoing learning experience and only the most egotistical dom is foolish enough to believe he does everything perfectly (if he is that egotistical his submissive is surely smart enough to never tell him he doesn’t have a clue so his conceit is self-perpetuating). Once you give him control, you might be bratty or flaunt his rules on occasion, but you have given him ultimate control so the response is all up to him (within any predefined limits) and your “job” is to take whatever he chooses to dish out. If that fails to “correct” your behavior he is free to try something different. If nothing seems to work, he is free to say the spanking is over and it’s time to go back to being vanilla.

Once you ask to be spanked and Jack agrees, you have “given” him control. He does not have to “take” anything from you. Jack is in the position of ultimate strength because, like me and Tigger, spanking is infinitely more important to you than to him. If you don’t behave, and you decide you prefer an ongoing wrestling match to see who runs the show, all Jack needs to do is say he is through spanking you. My way or the highway. With Jack and I those are not empty words. They would be if your husband had a powerful need to spank you, but he doesn’t. So, you behave (within certain limits because what fun would it be if you weren’t a brat?) or you don’t get to play.

I have just broken a huge bylaw of the doms union by publicly disclosing that we intentionally propagate the myth that it is submissives who actually have all the control. Because of that, my membership is likely to be revoked. An effective dom naturally wants his submissive to cling to the illusion that she has the ultimate control because without it she would become a slave and the dom would become a master. The belief that she is in control is what allows her to be bratty. It gives her the strength to question us, to correct us when we mess up (thank goodness), to tell us our fly is down as we are walking into the grocery store, to keep us from running out of gas at 3 a.m. in a drug-infested neighborhood because they insist we stop for directions as we tell them we know where we are going . Without believing she has control she will have no strength should anything ever happen to us.

Doms such as Jack and me love strong women. We love brats. That is why we married them. That is what we find attractive. We love the challenge. We don’t want slaves. We don’t want to take the fight out of you. We don’t want you to realize we have the ultimate control. We don’t want complete surrender. We want you to think you have the control. We want you to think we actually believe we are trying to “take control from you.” Spanking and submission to us is the same as sex is to a vanilla man. We don’t want a woman who just lies there and takes it while hoping we just hurry and get it over with.

Kayley said...

Tiggs - Hey don't worry about the friendship thing! You know I feel the same... every bit of it! And I also trust you with more than my spanko self. hehe The Daddy stuff - since we haven't tried it yet, we can't move on. lol So in order to evolve, we need to try it. Well, I need to. I dunno about Jack. lol

Paul - no sub is the same, no Dom is the same. It's normal. I mean, our interests are devided even in our own spanko field, and we can hardly explain to each other what spanking means to us, so how can a vanilla get us if we, spankos, can't? :) I'm sure you and Mel had such a great relationship. It would have been great to meet her. Really. I mean you are great, so she should have been great herself. :) HUGZ!

lessa{D} said...

OK... I just love all these comments... and Kayley.... big hugsssssssss from Holland coming your way... I think this is great... you learned so much in just 24 hours... and this will stay and grow... and I am so happy for you...

and then Dante's words... mmmm, broken de laws of the Dom Union... I am gonna remember these...

it is as Dante says... DragonM doesn't need to tie me down... he just has to say "STAY" and I do... but I must admit I do like ropes... and all those beuuterfly feelings when DragonM is busy with a beautifull bondage... or a hair bondage... mmmmmmmm

OK... I am writing half stories here... so hugssssssssssssss.. have a wonderfull evening...

and uhmmmmmm, I think I have something coming tomorrow... ;-)


Kayley said...

Dante - I have so many things to comment on in your comment, that I will hve to do it tomorrow when I have time. It's very deep and interesting and I wanna do a proper job answering. ;) HUGZZ!!

Tiggr said...

Hey Kay,

I just read Dante's comment above and want to elaborate on one particular statement:

"We don’t want a woman who just lies there and takes it while hoping we just hurry and get it over with."

Ain't that the truth... they want the kind that makes their hands HURT from spanking them too hard! He, he, he, I'm really gonna pay for that but that's OK...

That's the pure joy of being a brat!

Hugs and love and pillows for both of us,

Kayley said...

Lessa - hair bondage?? Tell me more on that! I am curious! I don't have much for bondage because my fav is Domestic Discipline, more like, I catch you doing something and I spank you on the spot. lol But like I said, when sex is involved, I love handcuffs and shit like that. Even though it's scary at times. lol ;) So... what do you have coming tomorrow??? Can't wait! Love ya!

Kayley said...

Tiggs - lol I'm with you I'm with you!! With Dante too, obviously. ;) Oh, yeah, that thing with hurting their hands... yesterday he keps slapping mine and they were really hurting... how come theirs isn't??? *puzzled*